cornerofmadness: (Default)
[personal profile] cornerofmadness
for those who haven't erased CoS from their minds, Ed can't use alchemy in Germany, can he?

Yeah thinking on my big bang already. So far all the Ed, Al, Winry subplot hinges on Al and his sex drive. Um...why oh why do I have no subplot for you boys. Winry, you need to be do something too. You're a successful mechanic by now. Surely there's some subplot for you too. (I do like [livejournal.com profile] silvrethorn's suggestion that Winry can tell something about the maker, later on in the story when a piece of the automail is left behind.)

And why oh why do all my bigbangs end up murder mysteries?

At least Roy, Riza and the Ishbalans have a subplot.

Date: 2011-08-12 03:39 pm (UTC)
enemytosleep: [Edward Elric from Fullmetal Alchemist] colored image of a teen boy adjusting his tie, looking serious (Default)
From: [personal profile] enemytosleep
No alchemy in CoS (it's actually 1914? - forget the exact year - Germany there).

Date: 2011-08-12 03:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cornerofmadness.livejournal.com
really? I thought it was much later than that? Wasn't Hughes a Nazi?

Date: 2011-08-12 03:57 pm (UTC)
enemytosleep: [Edward Elric from Fullmetal Alchemist] colored image of a teen boy adjusting his tie, looking serious (Default)
From: [personal profile] enemytosleep
I told you I forgot the year. XD I looked it up on wikipedia just now and it says 1923, so yeah.

Date: 2011-08-12 04:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cornerofmadness.livejournal.com
which still isn't Nazi and yet that is the perception of Hughes. hmmm, curious

Date: 2011-08-12 04:02 pm (UTC)
enemytosleep: [Edward Elric from Fullmetal Alchemist] colored image of a teen boy adjusting his tie, looking serious (Default)
From: [personal profile] enemytosleep
CoS sucks, what else can I say?

Date: 2011-08-12 06:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cornerofmadness.livejournal.com
you'll get no arguments here

Date: 2011-08-12 04:21 pm (UTC)
ext_276146: (Fixin' to die)
From: [identity profile] bay115.livejournal.com
Real quick during that time the Nazi party got somewhat started and Hitler was attempting a coup, ala Beer Hall Putsch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch), so I'm assuming Hughes was already part of the Nazi party or is going to.

Date: 2011-08-12 06:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cornerofmadness.livejournal.com
yes I guess that was the beginning of it all so Hughes was probably a nazi. man i still hate CoS for that

Date: 2011-08-12 07:00 pm (UTC)
ext_276146: (Can you hear me?)
From: [identity profile] bay115.livejournal.com
Haha, I admit I was first introduced to FMA when I watched the CoS movie with my mother and sister (my sister's ex-boyfriend lend her the movie), so I wasn't really aware of what happened in the original anime. I then watched the movie again after watching all of the first anime episodes (and Broterhood) and yeah, I hate the movie for that. XD I only pointed that out because I'm a World War I/Word War II nerd. :P

Date: 2011-08-12 08:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cornerofmadness.livejournal.com
I admit it, that is a time period of history I don't actually have much interest in (doing research into the 1930's now for my demon hunter series) I like ancient history more.

ah yeah that would be a weird place to start with this anime. everyone is so OOC IMO

Date: 2011-08-21 03:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ishte.livejournal.com
The Nazi (NSDAP) party was founded in 1919 out of the DAP. Hitler had been ordered to infiltrate the DAP which preceded it, and that eventually grew into the Nazi party with him at the head.

November 8 of 1923 is when the Beer Hall Putsche occurred. This is when the early Nazi's (NSDAP) attempted to overthrow the existing German government in Munich, where Ed was. That event takes place in the story. Bear in mind that at that point, while the Nazi Party was strongly nationalist, and wanted a 'pure' Germany for Germans only, most of the members really felt that was an ideal, but were members more for the worker's union aspects at a time when Germany's economy was completely destroyed by the terms of the Treaty of Versailles. Most of them had no idea of what that party was to become in the following years leading up to World War Two.

Hitler was imprisoned for treason after the failed putsche, and that was when he wrote Mein Kampf which more specifically outlined his own views and his plan to purify Germany etc.

As far as Hughes being a Nazi, he was a police officer. Most of the men in his beat were party members because they wanted improvements in the economy, and better jobs, so it was reasonable at that point to expect that he would be a member too for those reasons, even if he didn't know of, or agree with the underlying ideology and intense nationalism and genetic isolationism that Hitler strengthened and expanded on once he entered DAP and it later headed NSDAP (Nazi party).

When you watch the movie, you don't get the sense of "These are Nazi's and they are evil and devious." It's not how they are presented at all. It's probably not how they were at that point in history either. They were fairly young men, pleasant and trying to work toward a better Germany. Mostly they had an understanding that the current government needed to go and a new system put into place. That was what the Putsche in 1923 was about.

In the movie, the ideology that was strongly central to the Nazi party and in German attitudes later as the economic disaster deepened was only touched on briefly as many people genuinely felt (as is often the case) that the bad times are because of XYZ group. Here in the US the Irish were treated horribly. We were accused of bringing down neighborhoods, taking all the jobs and being troublemakers.

Now don't get the idea that I'm defending the Nazi party, or Hitler in any way. I'm just pointing out that Germany was no stranger to segregationist and nationalist thinking at any point, but that their horrific economic condition following the trouncing they got in WWI, combined with charismatic leaders who really did think the problem was 'outsiders' who needed to be ejected (and not at that point destroyed. That thinking also came later as I understand it) from Germany so that Germans could have the jobs and the benefits. The Treaty of Versailles was really so harsh that it was a huge contributor to the rise of the Nazi party in Germany. After World War II, the Allies made sure that mistake wasn't made again, as great effort was put into the restoration, rather than leaving once again a completely devastated Germany with no resources to rebuild itself.

I liked CoS. I heard plenty of people who didn't like it talk about it, but I watched it and decided for myself. Bear in mind too, that it's an AU Germany. The concepts of parallel universes is mentioned by one of the important supporting characters. In such a universe people may be similar, but with situations that are not necessarily the same.

I'm no history expert. I did have to stop and look a few things up, but since I write CoS canon, I do know at least what Ed went through in Munich, and also, how I perceived Hughes part in the party, and the putsche. It definitely wasn't "I'm an evil Nazi that wants to kill everyone except Aryans" It was more quiet. Ed didn't even find out until the night of the uprising when he walks in to the beer hall and realises that something is up. It's at that point where Hughes points out his membership but his attitude is more like: "We're all members of this party, and we're going to overthrow the government for the good of Germany so we can all improve our lives." (no that's not a direct quote)

I hope it's helpful.

Date: 2011-08-21 03:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ishte.livejournal.com
PS... sorry that was so long. Main point: I doubt that Hughes would have remained a member once Mein Kampf was published. It doesn't fit his personality unless it were in the same kind of role he was in in Amestris, investigating what was going on there. This story predates Mein Kampf, but not the founding of the party.

Date: 2011-08-21 04:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cornerofmadness.livejournal.com
Cos is so OOC I figure you can't even predict what Hughes would do

Date: 2011-08-21 04:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cornerofmadness.livejournal.com
yes i kn ow all this. I thought the setting of the movie was 10 years later than it was

Date: 2011-08-21 04:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ishte.livejournal.com
Ee.. Sorry, I didn't mean to write 4300 words of explanation anyway hahaha... I guess just remember that while Alt!Hughes may genetically be Hughes that he's had different influences on his personality, as have nearly everyone else in the movie. Alt!Hughes seems a little more shy unless he's in the capacity of his job. Just my opinion on that. I don't think he's had the influences that make him into the kind of flamboyant extrovert as his 'twin' from Amestris.

Date: 2011-08-21 04:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cornerofmadness.livejournal.com
well that may well be true.

Date: 2011-08-12 03:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bob_fish.livejournal.com
No, anime #1 and CoS assert that alchemy doesn't work in our world, so Ed ends up alchemy-free in both canons. ;_;

I'm sure that once you bring in Winry's professional side there are a ton of ways her skills could be relevant. Tracing automail seems like something she could do (and that a lesser mechanic or someone without her broad knowledge of the automail industry couldn't do). Some people (like the military) pretty much regard automail as a kind of weapon as much as it is assistive technology, so perhaps that could come into play too? I mean, Winry makes people legs and arms, but her industry elsewhere makes some pretty hardcore weaponry attached to/instead of legs and arms.

Date: 2011-08-12 03:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cornerofmadness.livejournal.com
that's what I thought. Thanks

Yes indeed. So at least Winry will have something to do. Ed's supposed to be helping alt!Hughes in investigations so he can be assisting Winry (and probably being pretty hopeless about it since I doubt that he cares much about the various automail styles and metals beyond his own).

And you're right, the military does invest in some pretty scary automail

Date: 2011-08-12 11:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] evil-little-dog.livejournal.com
So, I'm now interchangeable with [livejournal.com profile] silvrethorn? Well, she's cuter than I am, so I guess I'll be okay with it.

Looks like everyone answered your questions!

Date: 2011-08-13 05:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cornerofmadness.livejournal.com
i thought you mentioned the oils and she mentioned the folded metals

Date: 2011-08-13 07:42 pm (UTC)

Date: 2011-08-15 01:25 am (UTC)
yuukihikari: (Default)
From: [personal profile] yuukihikari
Murder mysteries are fun though X3 *puts it on the list of things to look forwards to*

Date: 2011-08-15 03:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cornerofmadness.livejournal.com
they are. thanks

Date: 2011-08-21 03:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ishte.livejournal.com
Alchemy in its usual form does not work. HOWEVER, Ed does discover by accident that a blood sacrifice can activate a transmutation circle. He cuts his cheek going in a broken window. Inside he finds a half finished xmutation circle, and being the OCD that he is, picks up a chalk and finishes it. Then he asks himself "Why am I doing this?" while rubbing at his bloody face. When he puts his hand down onto the edge of the circle with is blood on it, it activates, though only for a moment. Later it is fully activated when his father sacrifices himself and Envy in an attempt to get Ed home (which succeeds, but which Ed stupidly throws away by going back through the gate (as if he couldn't figure out some way to close and seal the gate from Amestris, right? But he thought we got the bomb from that guy from Amestris. Never mind we were already working on the stupid thing and would have had it in a minute anyway. He should have stayed home... >_< That is my entire gripe with the movie, that once Ed got home, he should have stayed, and instead they decided to break everyone's heart and have him leave again and take Al with him.)

Date: 2011-08-21 04:04 am (UTC)

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